Why Do So Many YouTube Atheists Ignore the Rules of Debate?

All too often, I make a comment on YouTube and someone completely ignores all rules of debate, dodges, ignores evidence, falsely accuses me or my motives, and makes completely unsupported claims.  One such incident has happened over the last several days.  Now, I'm not usually one to make fun, but I found a YouTube video called Atheist OWNED by a Christian posted by YouTube user vrod000.  Embedding has been disabled for this video, so I apologize that I cannot do that.  Well, Dr. Ben Witherington III pretty much ate Dr. Michael Shermer for lunch.  Shermer made the mistake of saying, "You see in the gospels this kind of conflicting tension between where Jesus was born. Was it Bethlehem or was it Nazareth?"  Well, that's easy, and Dr Witherington handily defeats this argument.  Simply the gospels that mention a birth place for Jesus is clear that it is Bethlehem and no where does any gospel even hint that it might have been Nazareth.  Yes, Jesus was RAISED in Nazareth, but was born in Bethlehem just like countless other children throughout history have been born in one place and raised in another.  Jesus wasn't the first and he wasn't the last.

So, YouTube user canadianplanter came to Dr Shermer's rescue.  He claimed that Shermer wasn't trying to say that any of the gospels claimed Jesus was born in Nazareth, but was instead claiming that the story of the census and Mary and Joseph traveling to Nazareth was made up by the gospel writers.  First of all, when I hear, "You see in the gospels this kind of conflicting tension between where Jesus was born. Was it Bethlehem or was it Nazareth?"  I understand that he is claiming that at least one of the gospels claims Jesus was born in Nazareth, and I don't see how you can possibly think otherwise, at least not if you read that sentence without bias and with your brain turned on.  Second of all, that claim is also easily refuted, but I'll deal with that later.  Third, canadianplanter is clearly moving the goalposts here.  Shermer set the goal at "at least one gospel claims Jesus was born in Nazareth" and canadianplanter tried to move it to "the story was made up by the gospel writers".  Well, this feeble attempt at a rescue (when Shermer clearly fell on his own sword) is also easily refuted.

I said, "But that is NOT the argument he made. He was trying to argue that some gospels say Nazareth and others say Bethlehem, which is easily refuted. Don't be moving the goal posts!"

It really should end there.  There is no reason to argue further, other than a deep-seeded need to be right.  What he should have said, if he was interested in exploring the idea that the gospel writers made it up, was, "Well, Shermer said something stupid, but I say that they made it up.  What do you say to that?"

Well, you're still moving the goalposts, but I'll play.  For starters, Luke has been accurate about 32 countries, 54 cities and 9 islands, so he has a pretty good track record.  Furthermore, Just because the only census by Quirinius mentioned in Josephus was in A.D. 6 doesn't mean that it was the only census he took.  Neither does it mean that he didn't become governor until A.D. 6.  Luke is clear that the census taken that required Mary and Joseph to go to Bethlehem was the FIRST census. (Luke 2:2)  This strongly implies that there was at least one more census taken, like the one recorded by Josephus.  There is also evidence to suggest that Quirinius was twice governor of Syria.  For a more in-depth look, check out the article When Did the Luke 2 Census Occur?

Well, that's not what was said.  What was said is that *I* moved the goalposts and NEVER did Shermer state that the gospels claim Jesus was born in Nazareth.  Hello!  "Was it Bethlehem or was it Nazareth?"  Please explain to me how this isn't stating that at least one of the gospels claim Jesus was born in Nazareth.  We went back and forth until he finally admitted, begrudgingly and not without condescension, that he didn't have any evidence that Shermer meant what canadianplanter tried to claim he meant.

After this I explained in YouTube approved fashion how canadianplanter could find the article on the Luke 2 Census hoping that would end it.  YouTube doesn't allow anyone to post anything that might even be mistaken for a URL, so I had to show him what to Google and where to click.

Again, instead of admitting defeat, or trying to impeach the new evidence, canadianplanter decided to do more dodging, insulting, and condescending.  So, I'm out.  I'm sure if he ever found this post, I'd be whining about how his superior intellect intimidated me, but I wanted to post this so that if anyone does happen by here, you'd see the kind of tactics used by some less than scrupulous YouTube users with an axe to grind against Christianity.

He even had the gall to say, "If one were to examine all the evidence available, without bias or prior conclusion or desire for a particular outcome, and were to find a conclusion (either way, or a third alternative) then that would be the approrpriate way to go about the question."

Um, who ordered the condescension?  Certainly wasn't me.  I replied with, " You know what, I've gotten nothing from you but dodges, unsupported claims, and false accusations, so I'm done." and then added in a second post, "Oh, and this last post was very patronizing and insulting."

I know how to reason deductively.  I don't need some hoser trying to educate me, especially when his arguments (dodges, false accusations, unsupported claims and condescending remarks) were a major epic fail.

His response?  "I don't see how me explaining my position on examining evidence and coming to a conclusion is patronizing and insulting. I find it strange and sad that often people cannot have a discussion with someone of opposite opinions without getting insulted."

Really?  You don't see how condescendingly explaining the deductive reasoning process to me is insulting?  I posted, "Um, maybe because we didn't have a discussion, we had me asking you specific questions and getting dodges, condescension, false accusations, and unsupported claims. We also had me give evidence for my side and you simply dodging and ignoring rather than trying to impeach said evidence. Have you considered that the reason that people often cannot have a discussion with you without being insulted is because you offer nothing but insult?"

Please, go to the comment page and read the whole thing for yourselves.  Maybe I am wrong, but I don't really think so.  I guess what I really don't understand is that this just scratches the surface.  The real meat of the matter is in the cosmological, ontological, teleological and other philosophical and metaphysical arguments that cannot be defeated logically.  They say the devil is in the details, I guess that's why he so often uses these tactics to try and convince people that God doesn't exist.

Pastor Whaley, We Will Remember You

Dennis Wayne Whaley

Pastor Dennis Whaley impacted my life in the best way possible. He had the most awesome personality.  His obituary said that he "collected" friends, which could not be more true.

My first impression of him, was that he had an overwhelming joy about him. When I had just started attending Praise Assembly of God in Springfield, MO, where he was Minister of Ministries, I wanted to become involved in some sort of ministry at Praise, but I was nervous to approach a pastor in such a large church, even if it wasn't the senior pastor.  Needless to say, he put me right at ease and welcomed me. Less than a month later, he trusted me with being in charge of the Buckaroos, and found me two of the best helpers I think I have ever had, Travis Townsley and Ebon Carter. His faith in me and his encouragement helped me to grow in maturity and faith. Then, it wasn't long after that he was roping me in to the drama team where I met more wonderful people and discovered that I really liked acting. Dennis was a wonderful man, and an influence on my life I will never forget. I can't wait to see him again in glory.

Dennis Wayne Whaley Obituary: View Dennis Whaley's Obituary by News-Leader: "- Sent using Google Toolbar"

Some YouTube posts

Recently, I've come across a really great YouTube video by user bzel333.  I have found his videos to be very informative and accurate, but this time I had been going through a bit of a season of doubt.  Thanks to bzel333 and this video, my faith has been strengthened.




Then, I came across a number of videos that were published from an atheist perspective.  Following are the videos and my responses:




Even an overwhelming majority is still argumentum ad populam.

These "arguments" are not very good ones, obviously. There are much, much better arguments that the rank and file simply have not been properly taught. There are a number of reasons for this, namely apathy and laziness on the part of Christians.

If you want to see true genius, check out Thomas Aquinas. Ed Feser wrote a really great book entitled _The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism_ that's also worth reading.



I see some problems here. First, you start out discussing the teleological argument, but change to the cosmological argument. The second problem is that neither argument states that something complex must come from something even more complex. This means you have succumbed to a straw-man fallacy.  Furthermore, neither argument states that God came from nothing, but is the first uncaused cause. Finally, the universe did begin, so we can't save a step there.

I've run out of space :)



For the wages of sin is death, BUT the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 3.23, HCSB) ?? I encourage you to read it in it's context. In fact, read the whole book of Romans.

Also, claiming to be a Christian and being saved by the blood of Jesus (and becoming an heir to inherit eternal life) are not the same thing. "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift" (Ephesians 2:8) Also see Matthew 7:21



While that may be what a lot of people think, it's not what Jesus taught. The video by bzel333 sums it up best: